25 / November
25 / November
Socialism Didn't Work at Plymouth Plantation, Either

The Pilgrims who launched Plymouth Colony overcame religious persecution, a trip across the Atlantic, a harsh winter, disease, and the threat of hostile natives. As my column @ Human Events demonstrates, they also overcame socialism. Just don't tell this to The New York Times.

posted at 02:01 PM
Comments

I wonder if the Tea Bag movement will win the battle against socialized Medicare and Medicaid, universal K-12 education, socialized police forces and fire departments, socialized military forces, and Social Security? Only time will tell if the "free"-market bunglers will be able to destroy everything, including the rest of the U.S. economy they managed to devastate over the past three decades.

Posted by: PMA on November 25, 2010 04:07 PM

It only took the Soviet Union around 70 years to bungle themselves into oblivion...yet those nasty capitalists still soldier on.

The difference between free market economies and those of the socialists...socialism fails every time.

Posted by: NR on November 25, 2010 05:24 PM

Tea Bag movement.... What will win is the pornographic-fueled culture of ME, ME, ME. It's infected all sides of every debate and is unlikely to be defeated. Nobody really cares about any of this anymore.

Posted by: Homer J. Fong on November 25, 2010 06:51 PM

If socialism fails every time, why is there less wealth disparity in Germany, France, and Japan, and why do they work fewer hours/week than we do? If socialism fails every time, why are the military, police and fire departments, and universal k-12 education socialist institutions?

Posted by: PMA on November 25, 2010 11:30 PM

Germany and France are in a much worse position economically than the States right now.

Fire Departments and Police forces are not socialistic institutions. In fact, free market capitalism is one of the reasons people are drawn to these two professions, which (in Canada at least) are well paying jobs. Why are they well paying...because people wouldn't be drawn to them otherwise.

Try again.

Posted by: NR on November 26, 2010 12:24 AM

Besides, places like Canada, France, and Germany (and to a certain extent the U.S.A.) are Social Democracies...not pure socialism but rather a blend that takes into account the best of both worlds.

Your snarky tea-bagger comments attribute an ideology (strict libertarianism) to people who do not ascribe to it. Conservatism and Libertarianism are not the same thing.

Posted by: NR on November 26, 2010 12:41 AM

Must have been hitting the Red Bull and vodka early yesterday.

Don't you just love the lefties slant on reality. What is real, isn't; and what isn't real, is.

That goes for the here and now and historically. As in the case of telling lies enough, people start believing them.

The United States hasn't been the all powerful key contributor to human civilization and world economics that it has been over the last 150 years because of socialism or communism. This is especially true and proven as we see the Europeans abandoning socialist models because they are unsustainable and are causing their economies to decline.

While those two models have worked to help societies and economies decline, the free-market Capitalist model soldiers on.

The understand it any other way is to be delusional. Or disengenuous to say the least.

But now the nuts are running the asylum and our Marxist President and his merry band of academic dunces are pushing the Ivy League approach that Capitalism is the root of all evil.

As Quint said to Hooper in Jaws – “Well it proves one thing, Mr. Hooper. It proves that you wealthy college boys don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong.”

Posted by: asdf on November 26, 2010 09:55 AM

asdf wrote,

Don't you just love the lefties slant on reality. What is real, isn't; and what isn't real, is.

That goes for the here and now and historically. As in the case of telling lies enough, people start believing them.

This is perhaps the most egregious example of Freudian projection I've ever witnessed emanate from your sloppy brain to your crooked fingers and onto your keyboard and the internet.

Do you ever deal in sourced facts, asdf? I've pleaded with you repeatedly to use facts, yet they're never produced. You spout opinion after opinion, and I've yet to see you reference a fact on these comment pages.

I'm all for opinions being offered. I think wanting to "Party Like It's 1773", a sign Tea Bag assholes and Sarah Palin holds, is despicable for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to the fact that Native Americans were being slaughtered en masse, women couldn't vote, slavery was legal, and flogging was considered Constitutional. This, of course, is an opinion. But, the key point is that it raises facts and is based on irrefutable, indisputable facts.

If you read Thomas Paine's Aggrarian Justice or Franklin's The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin and the history of the countless liberals that came after him you'll realize that the left has been the only thing between corporatist, useful peasants of the elite like yourself and wage slavery.

Now, onto the facts.

NR wrote,

Besides, places like Canada, France, and Germany (and to a certain extent the U.S.A.) are Social Democracies...not pure socialism but rather a blend that takes into account the best of both worlds.

This is correct, and validates everything I said. The U.S. has a mixed economic and social system that utilizes socialistic mechanisms (education, retirement program, police and fire departments, the military) and market mechanisms.

NR wrote,

Germany and France are in a much worse position economically than the States right now.

This is absolutely wrong. Germany has a massive trade surplus and even Tea Bag assholes point to it as a success story, conveniently forgetting that Germany has universal socialized medicine, universal socialized education (including free college), and one of the world's strongest Union systems and extremely well-regulated corporations.

Sources:

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/if-germany-is-a-winner-it-is-partly-because-it-has-work-sharing

ATTENTION: FOX NEWS SOURCE ATTENTION: FOX NEWS SOURCE (you sloppy Tea Bag bunglers love it)

http://nation.foxnews.com/angela-merkel/2010/10/06/germanys-merkel-shows-obama-how-economies-grow

French economy sources:

"France's economy entered the 2008-2009 recession later and left it earlier than most comparable economies, only enduring four quarters of contraction."

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/13/news/international/europe_economy.reut/index.htm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html

NR wrote,

Fire Departments and Police forces are not socialistic institutions. In fact, free market capitalism is one of the reasons people are drawn to these two professions, which (in Canada at least) are well paying jobs. Why are they well paying...because people wouldn't be drawn to them otherwise.

I don't think you realize what it means to be socialist or socialistic. The pay scale is not what determines whether or not something is socialistic. Public police and fire departments are not funded by private individuals. These institutions are fully funded by communities and the public, in other words, the big bad scary evil treacherous murderous heinous Satan worshiping government. Of course, Tea Bag idiots are doing everything they can to privatize prisons, police forces, and fire departments, which is why I made the first comment I did.

Lew Rockwell, a corporatist capitalist who believes that minimum wage laws and child labor laws should be abolished, says that the military is a socialist institution, and he's 100% correct. It's fully funded by the government, and offers free education and health care benefits to its service members. Dan Flynn served in the Marine Reserves and probably understands these universal, socialized educational benefits better than most. But who knows, maybe he refused those free, socialist benefits.

From a Lew Rockwell interview:

ROCKWELL: Well, it's very bad for the economy. It's a vast transfer of wealth from the productive economy into the government sector into what after all is a socialist enterprise, the U.S. military.And therefore economically disastrous.

Source:

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_rockwell.html

Posted by: PMA on November 26, 2010 01:19 PM

What I find funny PMA, is that when facts are provided (which I've done many times in the past) and they don't somehow comport with your leftist opinions and ‘facts’ that are supported only by revisionist history, you dummy up.

As long as you're spouting opinion with 'facts' from some left wing source, you consider your word to be Gospel. Other than that, it's all azzholes and Tea Baggers to you.

So frankly it's sometimes difficult to take you seriously or waste my time digging up real facts that would support an argument. Especially as you typically do not respond to them.

Seems to me that you’re just more than happy to read your own rants.

Posted by: asdf on November 26, 2010 02:08 PM

Germany and the United States are not really good examples to use as comparisons when trying to support the idea that the United States is somehow late to the dance with regard to adopting socialism. Shear size of population differences and taking into consideration that the U.S. GDP is almost five times that of Germany do not make the two examples either way.

But there are reasons why Germany adopted socialism in the first place. They were more comfortable with the concept starting with the National Socialist Party. And after the Marshall Plan, their last big welfare program which was provided by the United States, they just rolled into more of a welfare state mentality (Something that was more monetarily easy to do under the U.S. military umbrella).

If you think that the socialist Nirvana has not been seen by the Germans and other Europeans as economically shackling (along with the multi-culturalism clap-trap), there is current evidence that they are already planning to dramatically cut back on social services and cut back on state run and financed programs.

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Germany-Cut-Welfare/2010/06/08/id/361344

But for the lefties, these things mean nothing and it's back to the future.

Posted by: asdf on November 26, 2010 02:50 PM

How is Germany "more comfortable with the concept starting with National Socialism"? Other than parroting Glenn Beckerhead and Jonah Goldbungler, how has Nazism made modern-day Germany more comfortable with socialism and how exactly does Nazism relate to public enterprise functioning democratically?

Which facts are you using as evidence to argue that modern-day Germany wants to dismantle its public health and education systems and its stakeholder corporate governance regulations? I've never read anything like that and even German conservatives would find privatizing education and health systems an anathema.

After searching I couldn't find anyone arguing within Germany for dismantling their public education and public health systems. The article you provided talked about slashing government jobs and welfare, but didn't go into specifics. Notice that it said nothing about dismantling their public health and public education systems. If you have access to those facts, by all means provide them. Otherwise, you're just another Beckerhead and Tea Bag lemming.

Posted by: PMA on November 26, 2010 05:18 PM

France and Germany...well let's see, there were several articles yesterday about the precarious sistuation with Germany's debt load and France has proven several times that the 35 hour mandated work week has not proven beneficial...socialism in action failing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7265807/

or

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1826227,00.html


or:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8160999/EU-rescue-costs-start-to-threaten-Germany-itself.html

As to PMA's spurious arguments that local government financing police and fire depatments = socialism...well whatever, nice chuckle.

As to his shutting up when you call him on his ideological drivel...never did hear his distinction between classical liberalism and what he terms ethical egotists...because he doesn't.

Never did hear his rebuttal of the enormous evil atheism has wrought in the past century...millions killed by atheist Communists...National SOCIALISTS, Maoists and Kmer Rouge. Kmer Rouge...whose genocidal impulses were pooh poohed by the great (in his own mind) Chomsky. Because he can't.


He can however overlook these established facts in his crusade against people of belief. Luckily, they forgive his maniacal bigotry.

You ask him to define ethical egoism and he gives you the first quote from wikipedia...as if that's an explanation.

I always like to think that there's common ground to be found in a rational discussion of conservatism and liberalism, but there's always some left wing moonbat (hey, why not, he calls everyone else teabaggers and worse)who has a set piece of ideology that everything has to fit into...with no regard for reality.

Pure Socialism is an unworkable fantasy that has many, many times been refuted, whether by the first settlers experiences or those of Communist Russia, or Socialist Germany...even Cuba is a mess and now having to resort to the free market to simply keep going. Except for all that...Socialism is great. Yeah, right.

Back to Huffpost if you have so much animus for the rest of us.

Posted by: NR on November 27, 2010 04:34 PM

BTW...the government funds the military. Does that make it socialist? No.

They fund Congress. Socialist? No.

I can only assume PMA thinks of teachers, firefighters and policemen as socialist organizations because they have unions...however, unionism and socialism are not the same thing. And unions are a perfectly legitimate capitalist creation within civil society...even if they played a major role in the bankruptcy of G.M.

Posted by: NR on November 27, 2010 04:58 PM

Sloppy teabaggers...how boring. Put some effort into it, you anarcho-syndicalist hack.

:)

Posted by: NR on November 27, 2010 05:01 PM

Have you seen the soppy commercials recently of people and things getting knocked down and then getting back up to recover? It's GM's attempt (i.e. Government Motors) to pull a tear and some sympathy by saying that we all fall down and need some help getting up once in a while.

The real story is much more insidious than that and it would really mean something if they hadn't sold 35% of Chrysler to Fiat and an initial 12% and now another 18% (after the IPO) of GM to the Chinese just to bail out the Unions that were killing those two great American institutions in the first place.

Posted by: asdf on November 28, 2010 08:45 AM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?