In America, protestors shout: Let us stay. Elsewhere, protestors whisper: Let us leave.

Yes. This is true. And if they wait in line and go through the proper procedures to be here legally as citizens or prospective citizens, then they are welcome to stay. There would be no need to protest if those doing so would follow the rules. In fact, pulling a permit for a legal protest is probably the only semblance of a legal thing they've done since they intruded.

Amen.

We are now seeing the other shoe dropping. How can we be surprised after all the years of political correctness and entitlement that some are now screaming bloody murder when being asked to meet some basic requirements before they gain entrance to the United States? It’s easier for these people to play the victim than to take responsibility for their own lives.

This whole debate is driving me crazy. The immigration "issue" is typical of American politics today: Attack the result, not the problem. And what is the problem? The Minimum Wage!

One of the big arguments I keep hearing for keeping illegals in the country is that so many small businesses rely on this cheap labor, and would collapse otherwise. And, anyway, Americans won't do those jobs for such wages. Yet the most logical approach to preventing illegal immigration is to cut off its source of funding, namely, the businesses that would employ such persons.

Yet if such businesses really were subject to stricter employment law enforcement, and did in fact collapse as a result what would happen then? America would continue its march toward becoming the most expensive place in the world to do business, and drive even more work offshore.

So how do you make it less attractive to come here illegally, and still protect those businesses that can't survive without cheap labor? Make it CHEAPER to do business here! This is a labor and tax law liberalization issue, pure and simple. If you make it legal to employ cheap labor, and can thus enforce existing labor law restrictions on hiring illegals, it will make it to the immigrants' benefit to come here legally, rather than risk their lives in a truck full of 50 other people. Otherwise, we only make it harder for the average person to start a business and not run afoul of the law, and avoid widening the gulf between rich and poor even further (ironic as that may seem).

Sorry for the rant. It bugs me.

Homer,
Do you think these businesses would actually collapse if they paid minimum wage, or would the people who use their goods and services simply pay the difference in cost driven by higher wages? You raise some very good points as always but are you sure the free market system wouldn’t bear the additional cost of legal workers getting minimum wage?

You touch on several issues that would take a week to debate, but as an employee and business person myself I’ve learned to take business owners poor-mouthing with a grain of salt.

So, why does The Right Hate America?

JB,
What?

JB,
What?

Just as it's true that nothing is free, it's also true that there is no such thing as cheap labor. Sooner or later, somebody ends up paying.

Many employers keep their costs trimmed by using illegals. They pay less in wages, in most cases they pay them under the table so they don't have to manage or contribute to taxes, social security and the like and don't have to support them with benefits. Thus they can undercut the competition. But, this has meant that government (through you and me) has had to pick up the slack.

Everybody looks the other way when these employers break the law by using illegals. And employers in like businesses who play by the rules can't compete. So, eventually, to stay in business many of them decided to break the law as well.

But, when you factor in the costs of illegals who don't bother to get drivers licenses, register their vehicles or get auto insurance and then go out and cause accidents that there are rarely consequences for, that doesn't equate to cheap labor. Or the ones who commit crimes and go through our court and prison systems at a cost to us, that doesn't equate to cheap labor either. Or the ones who get hurt and need medical care which we pay for or the ones who intrude here and go directly to the welfare office, file under 'not cheap labor'.

The idea that this 'cheap labor' is just doing the jobs that many Americans won't do is bull. The reality is that for low skill jobs, businesses are going to go with the cheapest alternative everytime and as nobody cares if they break the law or not, they'll go for illegals. This leaves many of our naturalized lower income 'tax paying' citizens out of the running for those jobs.

So, why aren't Jesse or Fat Al from Harlem screaming? Why is the head of the AFL/CIO standing up there with Traitor Ted K. at an illegal rally?

The power structure and government needs to get out of bed with these people. In particular our politicians should start to take seriously the act when they raised their right hand and swore to protect and enforce our Constitution and law's and stop pandering for votes.

Mariner,

I'm just a Joe Schmoe, one of the ones that people who use words like "hoi poloi" refer to, and I can't really debate the finer points of economics with you. But I know what's fair, and I know what's free. The minimum wage, and the massive burden of taxes, regulation, and oversight imposed on us by the Federal, State, and Local Government limits our freedom, hurts the ability of the free market to grow naturally, and ultimately is unfair. I have no idea whether what these businesses claim is true or not. But how can we disagree that people come here because they know that these "under the table" jobs are there for the asking? And if it were not so easy to get these illicit jobs, one would think twice about making the dangerous trip north? The Minimum Wage is but one major factor that perpetuates an environment where it is more profitable to break the law than to obey it. And we're not talking about Tony Soprano, here. We're talking about ordinary guys, who would normally obey the law otherwise.

Sorry, but being forced to pay a specified wage to someone, whether his work warrants it or not, should be considered un-American, and not some hallmark of a great society.

Homer and asdf have hit the ball out of the park but what is most astonishing is that there is a single politician with the nurve to look into the eye of the camera and pretend that it has not been their authority and responsibility to fix this problem. Again, who needs big government?

In many ways, this issue has become more of a social than an economic one.

If all 20 million illegals left for home tomorrow, the U.S. economy would blip but go on. It always has. There would be plenty of U.S. workers to pick up the slack and the difference between paying somebody a taxable $5.15 an hour or $3.00 under the table might force some businesses to conform to the law and make less, but it would certainly not be enough to tip the scales of our economy. The balance of savings would come with having to not pay for services to support illegal workers.

The illegal (read: cheap) work force is like a drug that business has a Jones for and needs to be weaned off of. I do agree that, ultimately, Government is the problem here but it could be the solution if it followed the rule of law and maybe reformed some existing ones. But it’s easier for Government to appear to be noble and sensitive to the plight of the downtrodden and look the other way.

In the meantime, I don’t think that the law abiding taxpayers should be subsidizing businesses or illegals.

Government has failed. its time to sue each member of congress who has served since 1975. the ones who have passed way, we let them slide. but everyone else its time to face the music. you have not done your job. anyone for a class action lawsuit?